Synopsis: This Election Day’s results hint at a major shift inside the Democratic Party — and a opening for progressive momentum despite megadonor headwinds. But if the tides are truly turning, what will it take to keep them moving? “I've been in Congress and I know the change that can happen when someone not only works for their district, but fights for the district . . . I have heard from my community, their frustrations with the lack of leadership. I've heard their despair as it relates to what happens tomorrow, because this manufactured chaos coming down from the Trump administration is not being dealt with . . . We are saying, ‘Wait till 2026 because things will get better.’ People are living it right now.” - Cori Bush Description: After this past Election Day, “politivists” Cori Bush and Kat Abughazaleh say the tides are changing. In what was widely viewed as a rebuke of the Trump administration’s policies, Democrats won races at every level in blue and red states on November 4, including Democratic Socialist Zohran Mamdani in the New York City mayor’s race. Where does the Democratic Party go from here? Guests: • Kat Abughazaleh: Congressional Candidate (D-IL-09) • Cori Bush: Former Congresswoman (D-MO-01); Current Congressional Candidate (D-MO-01) Full Conversation Release: While our weekly shows are edited to time for broadcast on Public TV and community radio, we offer to our members and podcast subscribers the full uncut conversation. These audio exclusives are made possible thanks to our member supporters. Become a member today, go to https://Patreon.com/LauraFlandersandFriends. Watch the special report on YouTube; PBS World Channel November 16th, and on over 300 public stations across the country. Listen: Episode airing on community radio starting November 19th (check your local station schedule) & available as a podcast.
Synopsis: What does this past Election Day signal for politician-activists running for office?
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Description: What do the results of this past Election Day signal for politician-activists running for office and the future of the Democratic Party? “Politivists” Cori Bush and Kat Abughazaleh say the tides are changing. In what was widely viewed as a rebuke of the Trump administration’s policies, Democrats won races at every level in blue and red states on November 4, including Democratic Socialist Zohran Mamdani in the New York City mayor’s race. Today’s guests know firsthand how challenging and costly it can be to run for office as a progressive — especially when megadonors and backdoor deals are the name of the game in our political system. Cori Bush is fighting to retake the seat she won in 2021, Missouri’s First District, which covers the city of St. Louis. She’ll be up against incumbent Wesley Bell, whose successful campaign against her in 2024 was heavily funded by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, or AIPAC, a zionist political action committee. Kat Abughazaleh is a 26-year old Palestinian-American, former journalist and political commentator who is currently facing a federal indictment related to her protests outside an ICE facility in Western Chicago. She’s making waves in a crowded Democratic field to represent Illinois’ Ninth District, covering the Chicago-area. How can modern progressives keep up this political momentum? And where does the Democratic Party go from here? Join us for that conversation, plus a commentary from Laura on making Congress less classist.
“I've been in Congress and I know the change that can happen when someone not only works for their district, but fights for the district . . . I have heard from my community, their frustrations with the lack of leadership. I've heard their despair as it relates to what happens tomorrow, because this manufactured chaos coming down from the Trump administration is not being dealt with . . . We are saying, ‘Wait till 2026 because things will get better.’ People are living it right now.” - Cori Bush
“A lot of people have lost faith in our political system, from every political stripe, because politicians are about words and not actions. We are using our resources to not only reach voters, but materially improve their lives. We do backpack drives, food drives, our campaign office doubles as a mutual aid hub . . . We are genuinely making a change on the ground and win or lose, this campaign is a net benefit to this community.” - Kat Abughazaleh
Guests:
• Kat Abughazaleh: Congressional Candidate (D-IL-09)
• Cori Bush: Former Congresswoman (D-MO-01); Current Congressional Candidate (D-MO-01)
Full Conversation Release: While our weekly shows are edited to time for broadcast on Public TV and community radio, we offer to our members and podcast subscribers the full uncut conversation. These audio exclusives are made possible thanks to our member supporters.
Watch the special report on YouTube; PBS World Channel November 16th, and on over 300 public stations across the country (check your listings, or search here via zipcode). Listen: Episode airing on community radio starting November 19th (check here to see if your station is airing the show and air date & time) & available as a podcast.
RESOURCES:
Related Laura Flanders Show Episodes:
• Mamdani v. The Establishment: What His Campaign Means for America: Watch / Listen: Episode Cut and Full Uncut Conversation
• “They Targeted Me”: Mayor Ras Baraka on His Arrest, Immigration Rights & Leading New Jersey: Watch / Listen: Episode cut and Full Uncut Conversation
• Bernie Sanders & AOC: “Fighting Oligarchy” with People Power: Watch / Listen: Episode cut and Full Uncut Conversation with Bernie Sanders
Related Articles and Resources:
• Democrats Flip Two Seats in Deep Red Mississippi, Break GOP Supermajority, by Daniel Orton, November 5, 2025, Newsweek
• Here are the key races to watch in Tuesday’s off-year elections, by Caroline Vakil, November 3, 2025, The Hill
• Anti-genocide protests attacked and beaten at St. Louis town hall event for Democrat Wesley Bell, by Andrew Clyde & Kristina Betinis, August 21.2925, World Socialist Web Site
• How Kat Abughazaleh’s Parents Shaped Her Identity and Political Worldview, by Trisha Faulkner, October 30, 2025, Distractify
• Deciding To Win: Toward a Common Sense Renewal of the Democratic Party, Principal Author Simon Bazelon, Co-Authors, Lauren Harper Pope and Liam Kerr. October 27, 2025, Politico
• AOC and the Squad’s List of Left-Wing Accomplishments Is Quite Long, by Branko Narcotic, Jacobin Magazine
• Mamdani opens floodgates of younger Democrats running for office, by Surina Venkat, November 11, 2025, The Hill
• Kat Abughazaleh On the Right to Protest, November 1, 2025, The Intercept Briefing - Listen
• Press Release: Congresswoman Bush Endorsed by Justice Democrats, October 23, 2025, Coribush.org
•. House candidate Kat Abughazaleh indicted over ICE confrontation, by Andrew Solender, October 29, 2025, Axios
Full Episode Notes are located HERE.
Music Credit: 'Thrum of Soil' by Bluedot Sessions, and original sound design by Jeannie Hopper
Support Laura Flanders and Friends by becoming a member at https://www.patreon.com/c/lauraflandersandfriends
CHAPTERS:
Recent Election Victories Signal Hope for Progressive Candidates
00:00:00
Cori Bush and Kat Abughazaleh React to Election Outcomes
00:01:53
Shaping the Democratic Party with Authentic Progressive Values
00:05:15
Kat Abughazaleh's Mutual Aid Campaign and Political Transformation
00:10:13
Embracing the Politivist Role: Activism Meets Politics
00:19:09
Help Sustain Solutions-Focused Progressive Journalism
00:23:45
Addressing the Class Divide and Big Money in Congress
00:24:30
Fighting for Free Speech Amidst Federal Indictment
00:27:29
The Power of Progressives to Transform Party Leadership
00:30:26
Building a Better Future Through Collective Community Action
00:37:38
Final Thoughts and Supporting the Laura Flanders Show
00:43:54
The “Politivist” Moment: Cori Bush and Kat Abughazaleh on Winning Without Selling Out [Full Uncut Conversation]
123.
Narrator: While our weekly shows are edited at a time for broadcast on Public TV and community radio, we offered to our members and podcast subscribers the full, uncut conversation.
These audio exclusives are made possible thanks to our member supporters.
0:23
In what was widely viewed as a rebuke of the Trump administration's actions and the GOP's policies in this second Trump term, Democrats won races across the country November 4th, winning governor's seats in Virginia and New Jersey, retaining state Supreme Court justices in Pennsylvania, and even breaking the GOP supermajority in the Mississippi Senate.
0:46
In New York City, a record-breaking million plus voters cast their ballots for 34 year old Democratic socialist Zora Mamdani, an anti Zionist Muslim South Asian immigrant whom Republicans as well as corporate Democrats had done their absolute best to vilify.
1:04
In his victory speech, Mayor Elect Mamdani had this to say.
And while we cast our ballots alone, we chose hope together.
Hope over tyranny.
1:19
Hope over big money and small ideas.
Hope over despair.
We won because New Yorkers allowed themselves to hope that the impossible could be made possible.
And we won because we insisted that no longer would politics be something that is done to us.
1:43
Now it is something that we do.
So how are you feeling as voters, onlookers, perhaps people considering running for office yourself?
To reflect on the implications of this moment, we have invited 2 courageous women who are doing politics in a big way.
2:06
Cori Bush is fighting to retake the congressional seat she won in 2021, Missouri's first that covers the city of Saint Louis.
She'll be up against incumbent West Bell, whose successful campaign against her in 2024 was heavily funded by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, or APAC, Pro Zionist Political Action Committee.
2:29
Also with us is Kat Abu Ghazali, 26 year old Palestinian American, former journalist and political commentator, who is making waves in a crowded field of Democrats seeking to represent Illinois 9th, the Chicago area district formally held by Progressive Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky.
2:49
So what does this moment mean for our politics, the parties, the 2026 midterms for us?
Let's get at it.
Welcome both.
So glad to have you with us.
Starting with you, Corey, Congresswoman, I should say just off the top of your head, how are you feeling as we start this conversation today?
3:08
I am overwhelmed.
I'm overwhelmed with the day.
You know this day that we are in, one year ago if you would have told me we would be here this quickly, I would have questioned it.
But we, the tide has turned in so many ways.
3:26
People are understanding that and I'll say, let me not say people.
Our government has to reckon with the fact that the people want self determination for all people.
The people want humanity, The people want dignity.
The people want, we want to see our legislators, our elected officials, our politicians, our leaders actually represent the people and the people are saying this is who we are.
3:53
And so we saw it on Tuesday night with the amazing victory of Zoran Mamdani and so many others.
It was an amazing night and I love to hear you say it happened quickly.
I think you're referring to we're not even a year into Donald Trump's second term, but it does seem like perhaps it's been generations that we've been waiting for this kind of change.
4:15
You're a different generation, Kat, coming to you.
How are you feeling in this moment as we begin to talk?
You know, when Zoran won his primary, I posted something like.
This is a huge night for progressive grassroots candidates with ethnic last names.
And this past Tuesday night was a huge night for everyone.
4:34
You know, we saw Democrats sweep across the country.
And I think the part of that is if you, as in the Republican Party, are filled with a bunch of weird guys that are pushing universally unpopular policies and terrorizing communities, people don't like that and they want to vote against it.
4:51
But for the first time in a long time, I feel like people are voting for something I said on Tuesday night, you know, good things are possible and we don't have to settle.
We don't have to settle for the less bad option.
We don't have to settle for the status quo.
We can have something better.
5:08
And I think Zoran really activated that in New York.
And a lot of progressive grass roots candidates are trying to do that across the country.
Now, there's a lot more to be said about Zoran's race in New York City and what people were voting for.
But just looking around the country, we need to say that the victories were scored by Democrats of all sorts of stripes, some more conservative, some more progressive.
5:30
Congressman Bush coming to you.
What do you think this means for the Democratic Party, which, let's face it, was very ambivalent about, For example, Mom, Donnie, State Senator Chuck Schumer, I mean Senator Chuck Schumer of for New York State never endorsed the guy and still won't tell us to this day who he voted for.
5:49
It shows that the power is with the people.
But what Democrats have to understand is this Tuesday does not mean that as long as we're a Democrat, we're going to win on in November of 2026.
That is not what I do not believe.
6:04
That's what that meant.
We have to make sure that we have the candidates that are speaking to the people that are hearing from the people, those that are talking about a Medicare for all that are talking about a a true Green New Deal that are speaking about our, you know, our reproductive freedoms.
6:22
And that but but are bringing it back to the fact that you know what healthcare costs really are, that wages are flat.
You know, that costs are up and actually speaking to the kitchen table, you know, and, and this, you know, we Vote Blue no matter who, unless it's somebody like you type deal, which, you know, talking about progressives.
6:43
That's not going to cut it.
Right now.
People are looking for candidates that are saying we're not taking that.
We don't want people who take AIPAC money.
We don't want the people who are bought and sold, the people who are taking money from the Republicans, you know, taking money, taking Republican money to run in Democratic primaries.
6:58
Because then when they have to fight against Donald Trump and his donors, his minions, then they can't do it effectively because of who funded them.
The people are the people understand that and see that now.
And so when we're talking about taking back the House and and the Senate, you know, in 2026, we got to look out.
7:19
The Democratic Party should not rest thinking that yay, we won.
No, you got to get it together because the day is coming when people are going to say, my vote is for the one that's anti genocide.
My vote is for the one that cares about all people.
My vote is for the one that can speak to poverty and help fix the problem.
7:36
There's so much to be said about that.
I mean, absolutely.
You're talking about the candidacy of Andrew Cuomo, who ran as an independent against Laura Mandani in New York, having lost the primary And did that independent run with funding from everyone from Michael Bloomberg to Bill Ackman, conservatives, Republicans, and with the, you know, implicit endorsement, even explicit endorsement of Donald Trump, Elon Musk and a whole lot of others coming to you, Kat.
8:03
I had to, I have to say I was very struck in the in the response to the mayoral, the results of the mayoral race in New York.
You saw a lot of pundits falling over themselves to say, well, this guy's just charismatic.
They weren't actually voting for his democratic socialist agenda.
8:19
They weren't actually voting for his policies, Free buses, childcare, rent freeze.
They were voting for his charisma.
What do you make of that?
A lot of pundits and people that have been in politics for a long time try to do everything they can to devalue progressives, whether it's saying that it's just because someone is charismatic or because people are angry.
8:46
In reality, the status quo hasn't been working for people for the vast majority of Americans for years, even before Trump, and people are sick of it.
It's not 1960 anymore.
Democratic socialism isn't necessarily a bad word, especially among younger people.
9:05
I think that, you know, I've seen this in my own race as well, of trying to devalue our movement, our, you know, gigantic group of volunteers who are excited to build something new as just young people or just a social media fad.
9:22
When in reality, we're making real change on the ground even before Election Day, using our resources to materially improve the lives of voters.
And I think the best thing that these pundits can do for the progressive movement is underestimate us.
There are a lot more of us than there are of them.
9:40
And in reality, a lot of progressives on the ground from Zoron to my own campaign, have comprehensive platforms.
I have the most comprehensive in my race.
We are thinking about the issues we are running because of the issues we are running because reality doesn't work for anyone except billionaires right now.
9:58
And you can try to devalue that all you want, but if you want to remain relevant in the years to come, you should side with the people and not oligarchs.
Well, let's talk a bit more about your campaign, Kat, and we'll come back to you, Congresswoman.
10:17
But your campaign is different in how you're using your resources.
You just alluded to it.
How are you running differently?
And then I want to find out why you decided to run in the first place.
I read somewhere that you started out life as a Republican.
I did I There are a lot of things in politics that I don't like, especially when it comes to money.
10:38
I saw how much money we spent in 2024 just for Donald Trump to win, and frankly, it made me nauseous.
I thought about how many food banks could be stocked, how many clinics could be funded.
And the fact that a lot of people have lost faith in our political system from every political stripe is because politicians are about words and not actions.
10:58
And so we are using our resources to not only reach voters but materially improve their lives.
We do backpack drives, food drives, our campaign office, double S as a mutual aid hub.
We're doing everything we can to make sure everyone in our community has whistles as they patrol and keep an eye out for ice.
11:15
We are genuinely making a change on the ground and win or lose, this campaign is a net benefit to this community and I think it's going to help us win.
We're also communicating transparent, transparently.
I speak without a script pretty much all the time and I haven't taken a cent from billionaires, Republican funded packs or corporate packs, unlike my opponents.
11:36
Well, we'll come back to more about how you got into this, but I do want to come to the congressman.
You are signing up for another probably brutal campaign.
Why?
What's what's giving you the the drive to do this?
First of all, because I've been in Congress and I know the change that can happen when someone not only works for their district, but when someone fights for the district.
12:03
That is the time we're in right now.
We need proven leadership in my district because we've had it.
That's the difference, you know, don't replace someone that is doing great work, that's actually fighting, that's delivering for someone that has made the decision to just exist.
12:22
I have heard from my community, you know, their frustrations with the lack of leadership.
I've heard their just their despair as it relates to what happens tomorrow because this manufacturer chaos that is coming down from the Trump administration is not being dealt with.
12:39
It is not being met with the with the urgency and with the fire that is coming down on us.
The destruction is happening every single day right before our eyes and on top of us.
And we're saying wait till 2026 because things will get better.
12:56
People are living it right now and my community was devastated by EF3 tornado May 16th of this year.
People are still living in tents on the property where their bricks once were.
We're talking about our inner city and, and many of of the areas were under resourced and people are trying to put their lives back together.
13:20
People are already struggling and now this and who is actually fighting for them?
Well, I know what I would be doing right now.
I know if I was in the seat that things would be different.
Just like when there was one, when there was flooding in our district, it was one in 1000 year flooding event that happened twice in one week.
13:38
And we were able to get FEMA on the ground, you know, quickly.
We were able to do all type of mutual aid, a stand up, just a lot of work for the community.
The thing is this, you can't just speak for the community.
You can't just, you can't just say you're doing the work.
13:56
People have to feel the change.
That's how they know that you're doing something for them.
And so I am running because I know what could be happening and I know it's not happening.
Tell us a bit about your background, Congressman.
Sure, I am the daughter of a, you know, someone who's been in politics for most of my life, but in municipal politics, my dad was just the one to help each one.
14:19
My dad would would help the person who he thought he saw was unhoused, who slept, you know, on the ground.
You know, he's the one that was going to make sure that person got to safety and got a meal and got a shower.
That was my example.
But I'm a registered nurse by trade.
14:35
I am a mother, a wife.
I'm someone who lived unhoused living, lived in a car with my two children, moving it around the city of Saint Louis, hoping that I wouldn't fall asleep too long in the night and would wake up in one of my children, you know, had passed in the night because it, you know, got too cold in the car.
14:54
You know, I've been on EBT, you know, with EBT at the time.
I've been on SNAP, I've been on WIC.
You know, I've, I have been through so many of things that people are fighting, you know, right now and struggling.
That's why I speak up.
That's why I stand up the way that I am.
And so I, like you said, Laura, I'm coming back again, you know, even though I know that this could be a brutal campaign, but what's really, really brutal is having to go through all of these that all of the policy violence or going through what we, what people go through every single day.
15:25
Because no one is speaking up to the point to where they're flipping the tables over and making change.
I'm that one.
I'm for this particular moment.
I am the one for this seat.
We're talking about backgrounds, Cat.
Yours is a little different.
And there are Daughters of the Revolution, I think in your history, at least part of it, where did you come from?
15:44
Who are you and how did you go from being, I think a teenage Republicans to being who you are now?
My yes, my mother is, you know, a white Texan.
Her family's been in Texas for, I believe I'm 7th generation Texan on her side.
And my father is a Palestinian immigrant.
16:01
He was born stateless.
His father came here for college to Chicago actually, and then brought his family over later.
This is where my dad, you know, learned English and then my dad settled down in Texas for college and after meeting my mom and my mother's family was really active in Republican politics.
16:18
So I grew up in a very the Reagan Republican family, but in hindsight, a lot of the values that my parents lived by didn't really match up with the party that they ascribed to.
And I think that's a story that resonates with a lot of Americans.
You know, I don't know if they would have used this word then, but I was raised in a very feminist household.
16:36
There was not a moment as a child where I thought I couldn't do something just because I was a girl.
You know, we my last name is Abu Gazale.
Growing up in post 911 Texas, there were a lot of things that were that didn't match up to this party that we said we were a part of.
16:53
And when I was about 15, we moved to Tucson, AZ, which is much less segregated by income compared to Dallas where I grew up.
And I suddenly had friends who were a lot smarter than me, who were unbelievably talented, that couldn't afford to go to college, even with a full ride because they couldn't afford the extra costs or they had to help take care of their family.
17:15
And I was like, wait, maybe Ronald Reagan isn't right about everything.
So I started asking questions.
And that was right about the time that Trump launched his campaign for president and no one in my family liked him.
My parents and I were like, maybe Marco Rubio is the answer, which is so funny in hindsight, but that was really the puncture I needed through all of the right wing misinformation that we have been subjected to for years and years for me to start questioning.
17:40
And by the time the 2016 election rolled around, my parents voted for Hillary.
I couldn't vote.
I was 17, so I did voter registration drives, but I wanted to devote my life to do radicalization and progressive politics.
So that's what I studied in school.
That's what I started my career doing, covering the right for Media Matters.
17:58
My specialty was Tucker Carlson and communicating these narratives.
So maybe that puncture could happen for other people.
Because the reality is there will always be folks who are bigoted and kind of suck, but there are a lot more who just want what everyone else wants.
And that's for their families to be safe, for them to have a happy life, to be able to thrive and not just survive.
18:19
And people like Rupert Murdoch have spent billions of dollars to create a system that keeps so many in a bubble of misinformation.
And if you're only given the effects of ignorance are so unbelievably negative, but its existence is completely value neutral.
18:36
You don't know what you don't know.
And that's why communication is really important from our leaders right now.
That's why I have devoted my career to the radicalizing folks and to try to cut through in a way that makes people listen, that makes them start asking those questions.
18:51
I did.
And even in my race, we have Republicans in my district who are like, I don't know if I agree with everything you believe in, but I do think you actually believe it.
And for that reason, I am considering voting for you.
I want to come to your campaign office.
I might want to get involved.
19:07
And that makes me really happy to hear.
Now, I know that when we first reached out to you, Congressman Bush, you were excited at the prospect of being on with Kat.
And so I want to give you an opportunity.
What was it you wanted to ask her or invite from her or what?
What kind of conversation would you like to have with each other because you have experience?
19:25
As you said, Kat's just coming into this kind of maelstrom of campaigning.
You're both connected, I think, by this long term vision of what's wrong in this country and clear vision of what could be different.
But you're obviously very distinct in your own ways.
19:43
But go at it.
What's your message to CAC?
Yeah, I, you know, I admire the fact that you have made a decision to run on your values.
20:00
You know that your principles are first.
Your community, you know, is, you know, that's your priority, but without biting your tongue to make it happen.
You know, I, I, I applaud that because once you start walking the journey of campaigning, people will try to tell you to change this about yourself.
20:21
Change that.
And you have held on.
You, you, you know, you're, you're, you're going deeper and deeper, you know, and I'm sorry about what you're facing, you know, you know, legally, but you know, but you standing up for what's right, you go ahead and be that person because there are other people that are looking at you, seeing, you know, can she do it?
20:43
Can she make it?
Will she hold the line?
Because they'll be coming up in a year, in two years, in four years and eight years.
Those are the ones that they will be saying you were my inspiration and you were the reason why I could be authentically myself and run to support and to to represent my community.
20:59
So I just want to say thank you.
And when we, when we did meet out there at the DNC during the protest outside, my heart was broken because of what was happening.
And you know, Rep Rural Roman should have been able to be on the DNC stage.
21:14
I will always say that.
But thank you for holding the line and being out there.
I started a pack.
I'm no longer affiliated.
I started a pack called politivist because I call myself a politivist.
It's the politician and the activist.
When I enter Congress, I was told you can't be an activist, you have to just be the politician.
21:33
Was like, no, no, I'm bringing the fire, the moxie, the courage.
I'm bringing all of that to Congress and I'm going to be the activist while I'm still the politician.
So the power of the push and the power of the pen in the purse, I was marrying those.
And that's who you are politivist too.
21:49
You're the activist.
You're a true activist, the true activist, you know a true activist, and you're now the politician.
And I know politician people think is a dirty word, but the actual definition, just somebody running for office.
There's a.
Lot of moxie in this in this virtual room here and I want.
22:05
To say something too.
Yes, Kat, I want to ask you, invite you to share what maybe Corey Bush's decision to run again means to you.
Yeah, I mean, everything you just said means so much.
I truly can't stress that enough.
Running for office is really hard, which Congresswoman, you know, and it's even harder when you stand by your values.
22:25
I have like, I just, there have been so many times during this campaign where someone or a group is offering a lot of money, frankly, race changing amounts of money to stand for values that I don't represent.
And it's because of people like you, Congressman Bowman, Representative Ocasio Cortez, this entire group of modern progressives that, like, walked so we could run right now, that gave me the strength to say no.
22:58
And I was asked by someone, would I rather lose with my values than win and owe a few favors?
And I was like, absolutely the former.
It's really hard.
This entire system is built to make it almost impossible for people who are not wealthy to run.
And I really admire what you and other progressives around the country have been doing.
23:19
I think we need more politivists.
The most frustrating thing of running for office is being told, well, you have to do this thing because it's how it's always been done.
You won't win without it.
And I'm really excited to be here in a moment where we're asking why, instead of just accepting that.
23:36
And I'm excited to see to see you run again.
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END MIDROLL BREAK-
Well, you talked a little bit about about what makes it hard to run for office in this time.
24:35
And, and we talk a lot.
We have talked a lot over my lifetime about the problem with Congress to white to male.
We don't talk enough about the class divide in Congress and how many Congress people are millionaires and how few have any of the sort of experience that people are going through in this country right now, the vast majority of people.
24:57
How could we fix this?
Like, what would you like to change, Congresswoman?
If you had your druthers about our system that could bring that class consciousness that you bring to our holes of Congress might change politics a lot with respect to the two parties that currently live there.
25:19
Absolutely.
Getting the big money out of politics is the thing that could make all of the difference because there are so many amazing candidates that I have supported and some that I never even had the chance to to learn about.
25:36
They're doing great work in their communities, but they cannot raise the money.
They don't have the connections to be able to break through.
I have candidates even now saying to me, can you do this?
Can you do that?
Can you do that?
Just to help me to get some help me get my name out.
25:52
And it's simply because they know that the other person in the race that the incumbent often times has this war chest or they're able to come make a few phone calls to some to some of their super, some super PACs, you know, and there it goes or somebody makes me calls when you say that.
26:10
But that's the problem because, and I'll say this, I when I ran for Congress for the House seat the very first time, like you said, cat.
So someone came to me and said, hey, we have we have, you know, all these six figures for you.
This will change your race right here at the end.
26:27
If you take this money, you'll win.
Yeah, you might not like where it's coming from, but if you take it, you'll win.
I told them no, if that's how I have to win that I, you know, I'll just have to go again and I did.
I said no to that money, win again and I won.
So that's for you, cat.
Like no matter what, don't take like.
26:43
I'm glad you said no, I'm glad you said no.
Just but when, when this time.
But but the, The thing is when I being in the halls of Congress and just hearing from some of my, you know, some of my former colleagues, hearing how they would talk about being burdened by the money, you know, wanting to make a different decision, but couldn't because of, you know, they didn't want to risk their seat.
27:07
You know, I had someone say to me, you know, Corey, I believe what you believe, but I don't want to be Corey Bushed like, so that is the thing.
And it wasn't, you know, I had big crypto after me.
I had, you know, big real estate come after me.
So people are looking at like, how do I just I just want to stay here to do the work for my community.
27:26
But there's all of this outside noise.
We have to get rid of the money.
Well, that's one of the aspects of the New York City mayor's race that has gotten too little attention in my view.
On the one hand that we had ranked choice voting, which made a big difference, and in the other we have public financing of elections in that mayor's race.
27:41
And I think that has a big a lot to do with the emergence of this candidate and the engagement of people in in his race.
Cat, what about this question of the indictment that you're facing?
I mean, as if things weren't hard enough in Chicago, you're in the middle of a campaign as that city is under siege from ICE agents and who knows who else they are.
28:05
Where does that indictment, how does that affect your ability to run?
Does it?
And maybe tell our audience just a little bit where it came from, what happened.
Yeah, so I have been protesting at the Broadview Processing Center, which is where ICE headquarters operations in Chicago.
And this is a processing center.
28:21
It's not a detention facility.
So people aren't supposed to be held for more than 12 hours.
They are being held for days or weeks, being denied water.
They don't have beds, hot meals, access to hygienic facilities.
We're now hearing reports of people going into cardiac arrest, being carried out on stretchers, being given fake translators.
28:39
So they'll sign their own deportations.
This is it's abhorrent.
And so I have been protesting there alongside hundreds of Chicagoans.
I was recently indicted by Trump's DOJ along with five other people.
28:54
And it's a blatantly political prosecution.
And this case is going to determine if this administration can criminalize Free speech, Free Association, the right to protest.
It's a lot to have on top of the campaign.
So now I had to.
29:10
We have to balance legal fees on top of campaign expenses, which are already exorbitant, which is why public funding of elections is so important and why I would love to see including a maximum of amount of amount that you could raise so that way we can level the playing field a bit.
29:26
But, you know, it's if you're trying to shut someone up, I'm not probably not the right person to target in this respect.
You know, we're following the process.
I will be pleading not not guilty, and I plan on winning.
But now it's just another thing to add on top of the campaign.
29:45
You know, I have covered the right for my career as a journalist, so this wasn't surprising.
It was maybe a little surprising to see my name on the indictment, especially so soon.
But I know the exact playbook what these people are working from.
I know they're sloppy, too.
30:00
They misspelled my name three times in the indictment, and they also correctly spelled it.
So it's not like they didn't know.
But this is what cowards do.
They're afraid.
So they tried to terrorize us with guns and tear gas, pepper balls, abducting people from daycares, and it didn't work.
30:19
Chicago's still standing up.
And so now they're using the federal legal system to try to shut us up this time.
And it's not going to work this time either.
Let's talk about the Democratic Party.
You're running cat to take the seat formally held by Jan Schakowsky, pretty good progressive Democrat, but whose retirement was announced early this year.
30:38
You actually announced your candidacy before she announced her retirement.
I'd love your thoughts on on why.
And then we are looking at a moment of leadership change inside the Democratic Party with the announcement from Nancy Pelosi, former speaker leader whip, that she would not seek another term after this one, which would be her 40th year in office.
30:58
So what do what makes you think that the change that you are a part of will affect this party at the top?
Because it's at the top that the biggest amount of money gets distributed and the line gets written, the political line gets defined in our presidential races.
31:20
And after the midterms comes the presidential race.
What is going to make the party different now in, in your view, Catton and Congressman Bush?
I think right now, you know, it's really important to have these conversations, particularly in deep blue districts like my own, because we have the ability to shape where the party should go and we don't have to worry as much about seating the seat.
31:44
To a Republican, I am a big person of highlighting actions over words, and I think the American people are realizing that words are just not enough.
We have been lied to enough.
Positive change is not a carrot to be dangled until after Election Day.
32:01
Giving a 24 hour speech is a fantastic way to boost morale and connect with voters.
But it can't stop there.
Your words have to be backed by actions.
Strongly worded letters are not enough.
You need to be out in the streets with people.
You need to be using your platform and your privilege and your power.
32:19
Recognizing that that is not what fascism goes for first goes for 238 men who are deported to a foreign country with no due process, using those qualities I just mentioned to stand for the people, to protect them, and to do everything you can to delay this president's agenda.
32:37
When Elon Musk marched his army of teenage in cells to the Treasury Department, every Democrat should have been standing arm in arm in front of every entrance and every exit and called their bluff because guess what?
Fascists are weak.
Well, I've had a lifetime of wishing the Democratic leaders to do things differently from what they've done.
32:54
Some have done it.
Coming to you, Congressman.
You've been there and and you've seen how power works inside the party.
And part of it is practical.
Some of it is, you know, the pragmatics of power.
33:10
In retrospect, I think there'll be a lot to say about the way that Nancy Pelosi wielded power in the first Trump administration, much of it laudatory.
But it's a structure that you get into that is hard to fight.
33:28
And I'd like to ask you your thoughts on on the crossroads that the party is at now and whether you think there's real chance of the sort of change you're seeking?
There has to be a chance and, and, and I think that we are it those of us that are running right now that have made the decision, you know, to, you know, be anti genocide to be, to not take the, you know, the Super PAC month, the corporate super PAC money to, to stand up, you know, for our communities in a way that we are not seeing some of our some of the folks in who are seated in Congress, you know, who are Democrats do that's how we're going to do it.
34:13
I was there, Laura.
I was able to see how 6 people talking about Squad, how 6 people plus, you know, here and there different, you know, of our colleagues, how we can make change simply by continuing to push, push, push.
34:31
We were not, we didn't get to stop everything.
We didn't get to bring everything to the floor that we wanted, but we, but we made change.
We were able to, to become, you know, a force within the Congress.
And it was just six people.
What we were missing was six more, 12 more, you know, 30 more to really be able to make that change.
34:53
And So what I'm hoping is that for those that are running right now, first of all, be true to who you are.
Let me say this.
Don't say that you're going to be you're going to stand, you're going to fight and all of that when you get to Congress.
And then when you get there, you change up on us because that hurts this movement.
35:08
That hurts who we are trying to, you know, who we're trying to be for this country.
It hurts that.
So don't do it.
Be who you are now.
You know, if you suck, suck now, you know, don't, don't wait till you get in because we'll call you out.
But but also that that's going to be the thing if we can get if we can get let let's get 10 more, let's add to the squad, because that's when we'll do democratic leadership.
35:33
You know, you know, it's easy to sideline one or two people.
It's easy to say that that well, that's fringe.
But when you have a group of people that are saying the same thing, that are fighting the same way, that are willing to put their names and reputations on the line for their communities, and their communities are like, yes, go.
35:49
That's when you see the difference.
Because look at the, you know, the Freedom Caucus.
I know right now, you know, they're, they're not who they were, but they weren't able to, you know, as much as I disagreed with them, they were able to hold the line for their agenda.
Do you think there's change happening inside the Republican Party, having just referred to the Republicans Freedom Caucus there, Congressman?
36:09
Yeah, absolutely I do.
Even if it's just one or two people that's making the, you know, you know, Thomas Massey, you know, fighting the way he's fighting, you know, and, and working alongside, you know, Rochana, who's a Democrat, you know, pushing to get the Epstein files, you know, released and, and to have a vote, to have a vote, You know, even Marjorie Taylor Green, you know, just lit just just what she's saying right now.
36:35
That is such a big change from when I was there.
So absolutely.
And of course there are going to be a few people in any party that will be speaking differently and, you know, moving differently.
But I think right now they're seeing some change even within their party, even as far as people who are not even in the Congress, you know, podcasters and other and influencers are speaking up saying, you know what?
36:57
I think that I'm different than my team right now, and so I do think as much as they try to say that they are, you know, that they move together and that no matter what, they're going to band together.
I think we're seeing something different right now.
I'm hearing you say the system is actually probably not in fact broken.
37:13
Is that true, Congresswoman?
I think the system still is doing what it was set out to do.
And so, you know, the the people who are not supposed to be in power and in power and the people who have the money and the resources will still be in power whether you're a Democrat or a Republican.
37:29
I think the system is is doing exactly what it was designed to do.
But at the end of the day, it's the people who have the real power.
And that's where I'm coming from.
I'm with the people.
Making a new system perhaps.
So final comments to, to, to from both of you to people in this moment.
I mean, I think that there is a sense of engagement.
37:47
I've not seen anything like it.
There's also a sense of, well, scarcity and pain as people are losing their SNAP, their food stamp benefits, their ability to feed their families, seeing electricity prices soaring, seeing us backsliding on environmental legislation.
38:05
All of this makes it hard for people to engage in the process.
Just a matter of time and energy.
How do you balance it yourselves?
And how are your supporters balancing those those needs and desires and and and and precious in this moment, Cat?
38:24
It's really easy to feel helpless, and that's what authoritarians want you to feel because you don't fight then.
Right now, Trump is burning the forest.
But when it's done burning, when we put out that fire, we get to plant new seeds and they're going to be better and bigger and more impactful, more people focused than ever before.
38:47
And I think that's that's what we're hoping for.
And I think a lot of people right now are realizing that your vote isn't even enough.
We keep us safe.
We take care of us.
We have a system that has left us behind.
39:02
And right now, we are fighting for a better world.
But also that real life impact, especially with how isolated we've become, particularly after COVID, is the thing that gives me the most hope right now.
We do like park cleanups and we have sometimes dozens of people that show up.
39:25
And the thing we hear the most often is, well, I'm not doing scrolling right now.
I always encourage people, you know, your change looks different depending on who you are.
We all have our own strengths and weaknesses and loves and passions.
It might be running for office is how you make change.
39:43
It might be checking on your neighbor.
It might be volunteering at a food bank or an animal shelter.
It might be just cleaning up your block.
It might be wearing a whistle and taking a walk every day and keeping an eye out for unmarked fans.
But whatever it is, we all have to do our part.
40:00
And right now I'm seeing people do that.
Actually come together and say enough is enough, and that is what's given me strength more than anything.
Congressman, what would you add to that?
I mean, Cat said it all.
I mean, it's community we're seeing.
40:16
We're seeing the community stand up.
We, you know, the way Saint Louis came together after the, after the tornado last May.
And it was the community that empowered one another.
It was the community that took care of one another while our local government was trying to figure it out.
40:31
We were already on the ground, you know, you know, meeting the needs of, of people who had now issues.
And that's the thing, you know, people are saying, but how, how will you help me now?
How will you protect my wallet now?
How will you help increase what's coming into my wallet now?
40:49
Because when we look at over 300,000 black women have been, you know, removed from the, from the federal workforce.
And 2nd to that as black men, when we look at how many people are being detained and arrested and removed, they're not just being arrested and removed from, just from, you know, just from, you know, just be able to say that, oh, we're, we're trying to fix immigration.
41:14
You know, no, that's a breadwinner or that's a, that's somebody that was taking care of family.
Like that's a human being.
That was that was, you know, helping to build this society or working for a better, a better tomorrow for all of us.
And you remove them.
So you're destabilizing our community.
41:31
So for us, we will take care.
Like I said, we'll take care of our communities.
We are the ones we're looking at what you need now and we're working to deliver that for you now, but not without an eye towards what happens tomorrow, which is why I introduced the Ceasefire now resolution in Congress.
41:49
It wasn't just about what was happening then, it was to stop what could happen in a year, what could happen in two years.
We always end these shows by asking our guests the following question, and that is about the future.
Like, what do you think is the story that the future will tell of this moment?
42:06
Kat Abu Gazale, let's start with you.
It was really dark, but it's not anymore.
And now we live in a world where people can afford housing, groceries and healthcare with money leftover to save and spend, Where we spend more on education than on bombs, where everyone has equal rights, and where we are still trying to make things even better than they are at this moment.
42:31
Beautiful.
What about you, Congresswoman?
Looking ahead, I don't know, 2550, a hundred years?
What will the future say of us now?
Because we are.
Because we are a leader.
Full movement you can't just take one of us out and then everything falls apart because we're leader full you know what our children won't have to go through is what project 2025 is trying to bring on.
42:53
So absolutely I think project 2025 wants to see black folks back in chains.
You know, I think project 2025 would like to see a day where Jim Crow is back, you know, but we won't go back there.
So so you know having that life, liberty, the pursuit of act of happiness, making the flag actually what is supposed to the what the flag symbolizes in the United States, what that American flag symbolizes making that the reality, you know, having a place where our children can grow where our children's children can grow and, and and live in a place of equality through the door and the lens of equity.
43:31
That's what I that's that's my hope.
But my hope is it's because we are here now.
My hope is because we are still here and we're still fighting.
My hope is because we're not sitting on the sidelines saying let somebody else do it.
My hope is because we have made the decision that we are here for such a time as this and we won't let it pass us by.
43:50
We will be the enemy to other people's.
Pain, I love it.
Thank you both so much.
I look forward to following both of your races and wish you a tremendous amount of good energy and moxie.
Thank you so much, Laura.
Yeah.
44:05
Thank you, Laura.
That was great.
Thank you guys.
Fantastic.
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44:24
All the information is at lauraflanders.org.
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